Maryanne and Kerry's Blog

Thursday, November 30

The skills required for maintaining a successful online learning community.

Maryanne here;
My thoughts and feelings as a participant: The skills required to maintain a successful online community for me are to participate, give honest non offensive feedback and to keep up with the flow of communication. Communication and developing a social community, whether verbal or written are the main skills required. According to Wenger (1997) sharing and developing a community is paramont. F2F classes contribute that body language also has significant bearing in developing a community. Where in an online virtual world body language according to Karen Swan (2003) can be replaced by emoticons to reflect the way someone is feeling at the time or what kind of response was given. "Cohesive verbal immediacy behaviours build and sustain a sense of group commitment to support the development of a discourse community". (p157).
To build a successful online community I felt there had to be a level of trust established between the members. This allowed me to write in a less restrictive way. Non judgemental responses and lively postings of encouragement boosted the ego and smoothed the way for me to open up to the group. I wanted to give feedback to postings. Trust takes time to build and this can be fostered by the facilitator giving timely words of encouragement.
Having an area of socialisation to discuss different forum was very useful for developing a community.
Towards the latter part of the course however, it became less important to use. The community had been formed. What was important was to keep up with the communication and flow of topics, to develop meaningful responses to posts.

My thoughts and feelings as a facilitator: According to Chris Kimble and Adisorn Na Ubon (2000) the sense of social presence must be created. This encourages students to actively collaborate and interact, "thus increasing sense of belonging and social cohesion" (p1). Dede (1996) mentions that a "strong community will produce more information flow, learning support, group commitment", (p2) collaboration and ultimately learning satisfaction.
The facilitator needs to norm the group (persona) the group will form as a whole. Timely postings of encouragement and positive feedback aids in establishing the sence of community. My previous posts of moos muds and a book reading support this.
Use names when posting responses, use greetings when addressing the community. e.g. Hello Gerome, I wonder whether you have thought about the implications of ... and sign off with your name.
Finally here are some thoughts some past posted and some new:

  1. Have a relaxed quiet tone to read email
  2. Use correct netiquette
  3. Encourage students to share ideas
  4. Phatic - greetings and closeures
  5. Introduce oneself to the community. Break the ice
  6. Have a base where the students can 'see' you. Have your available hours posted.
  7. Set and encourage group work (have individual work then pairs then groups)
  8. Have a 'community post' (someone from the group posts a reflection)
  9. Try and stay clear of ambiquity in your postings
  10. Keep clear of culturally sensitive material
  11. Try and build trust in your relationship
  12. Asynchronous text based CMC allows students to use at a time suitable for them.
  13. Have formal and informal activities.
  14. Keep the interaction going and keep a controlled eye on the flow/direction.
  15. Keep humor in your postings.
  16. Try and encourage the silent ones in the community to post and participate. Assign a buddy system to give peer to peer support.
  17. Ask for feedback and keep judgement out of the 'voice' (your answer).

References

Dede, C. (1996). The evolution of distance education: Emerging technologies and distributed learning. American Journal of Distance Education, 10 (2), 4-36.

Kimble, C. and Na Ubon A. (2000). Supporting the creation of social presence in online learning communities using asynchronous text based CMC. UK: Dept of Computer Science University of York, (1).

Swan, K. (2003). Developing social presence in online course discussions, Ch 10 (p157). Learning and Teaching with Technology. Kogan Page. USA.

- Maryanne

Wednesday, November 29

Evaluate online communication tools in given learning contexts

My thoughts and feelings: I have posted on a regular basis my feelings and reactions to Avators, Moos, Synch and Asynch methods. I must confess that I enjoyed the virtual hairdresser's. This concept of assessing student's responses to face shapes was very engaging. As a visual learner myself it appealed to me to see myself in different styles. I felt comfortable in sharing the photos of myself with other group members. This is a non threatening method of learning that I can use for my students. It is also using humor to learn a subject. I will use this method in showing computer parts and asking students to move them to the right location.

I learnt about how to use photobucket. This is a handy tool for inserting photos into postings, blogs and blackboard. I have started to use this with my students and notice that they find this to be invaluable when writing to their blogs. I also use Snagit at work and Fireworks. These work well with developing materials on line. I particularly found copying and pasting the html tag in photobucket very convenient and easy. I also liked the way we can store our photos in a folder. I stored my avators in the folder and uploaded them into the discussion board.

Asynch tools proved to be interesting (survival at sea)I found the freedom and flexibility of participating when I had time to be of great benefit to me. I found the intensity of making a decision by the end of the week to be an anti climax. It suggested to me that I relax my time frame when asking students to complete tasks online.

Synch tools proved to be more difficult for me to participate. This was due to the restrictions work puts on our downloading and the age of my computer at home. I found this to be very frustrating and also felt out in the snow. Alienated from the group. This rang warning bells in my head for when I set tasks to my students. I must make sure that there is access to the same technology before I set a task. I felt why set a task like the Palace in a course when you know the outcome will be for some, a negative experience? Are we not meant to be giving every opportunity to our student s to have a positive experience? (Also, according to Sue Jones (1996).
Also different time zones for some members of our group proved to be a hindrance when using synch. Using the virtual chat on Balckboard was a thrill along with googlemail. I found this enthralling that I could talk and write at the same time. This tool was of great benefit for me to use. My children use MSN and chat online as well as use voice mail every day. As digital natives they are comfortable with this technology. I took a little longer to convince a a digital immigrant. I could see the use in a class where I needed to talk to someone f2f online. "Have you thought about this approach in your assignment?" or "How is your Power Point presentation coming along?" This would make the conversation real.

Newsgroups and Listservers were interesting tools to use. I found once I got over the bad language to be a wealth of knowledge of the specific subject. I did find the newsgroups to be time consuming to feed through the information. Educational value, well as I have already talked to this I feel there could be some value for elite groups to bounce ideas off each other but I would value blogs better. Blogs are more personal and although they are not synch media they do offer groups or a wider audience a method of grouping ideas and journalising thoughts.
Listservers are useful in the context of students conducting a major research on a specific topic. They narrow the field of search and provide a wealth of information on topics.

Use of emoticons I feel is also a tool which is useful in establishing a social presence. The effective and timely response is crucial and according to Karen Swan in Developing a Social Presence (2003) these are ways of expressing emotions/feelings to your students.

Other types of tools used have been Blackboard (the main medium for transporting the course to us) This has its limitations and also benefits. The design and static layout of the menus are not visually dynamic. I liked the use of coloured menus and little banners theat Merle showed us. I use the colour of the workbook for each course I deliver coded to the menu buttons. I do not like how we have to scroll down the discussion board posts. Then, when you have finished posting you have to start from the first post again and scroll down. Email is an everyday tool that opens comunication to all our students. Hence emoticons are used with this. I have added the smileys to my toolbar in Thunderbird email.
Finally The tools used in online learning via Blackboard have complimented eachother. What I would not use would be synch tools. These I feel are best left till the systems used can support the technology.
- Maryanne

The Characteristics of an On-Line Learning Community and the Implications for Learning and Teaching On-Line

My thoughts and feelings about my learning:

Firstly as a learner. I found this to be a difficult task; in as much as committing myself to a set time every day (it sometimes proved to be beyond me) to check the discussions and stay on task. If I was unable to login on any given day, I did feel like I was letting the group down by not responding or not giving a decent go of someone's topic. It does take a considerable amount of time to keep up to date with the discussions, readings and answers.
The topics were stimulating and I did feel part of the community. The core group of students quickly 'formed' a cohesive unit by week two. There were some very vocal students that were deliberately teasing a response from the quiet ones.
Our facilitator was deliberately provoking and sometimes appeared brash and tactlessness. This was a ruse, he had alternative reasons for implementing this method. He was trying to elicit a response from the group to 'react and act'. This worked beautifully. There became the rescuer, comforter and stirrer in our group that other members affiliated with.
One of the essential ingredients of maintaining a community is to form a 'connection' between the other members of the group and the facilitator. According to Karen Swan "Cohesive verbal immediacy behaviors build and sustain a sense of group commitment to support the development of a discourse community". (p157) Karen Swan also mentions that bonding is formed by 'social sharing'.
We had our own socialisation areas in the discussion board. It started well but as we became more involved in the topics presented, we needed the extra socialisation less and less. This was evident as we were very engrossed in the topics. This proved we had formed enough of a group / community to sustain our relationships without needing to socialise.
My feelings about this community are that I felt there were some special members who would go an extra mile to share and help the group, whilst there were some members who 'lurked'. I would call these the free loaders.

The community called themselves 'Limb Jones'. I felt that sometimes it was a hornets nest. The facilitators were very diverse. There were two silent not too active facilitators. (More like the quiet observers) Then there was John. I found him provokingly brilliant. He had the nicest way of tazering you into action. He stood out and told everone what he expected from the start. This made some members of our group bristle. According to Sue Jones (1996) in her book Developing a Learning Culture, it is imperitive to build trust in a group quickly, build a health bond of communication then, slowly back off and let the groups personality emerge.

The discussion board was our main means of communicating. I did enjoy the virtual chat sessions but it was evident that not everyone could join in at the times set for this activity. There was a time factor - One member of our group was in another country and time zone. This immediately put some of us at a disadvantage. Upon reflection I would not use virtual chat unless all members in the group are in the same time zone. I had a problem with online chats - socialise and moove. This was unavailable at work due to the company policy about downloading software. I experienced a different problem at home, incompatable software with my old computer. This served a good lesson to me. When designing online courses, ensure there are clear software/hardware limitations posted. Or, keep the course content delivered without the extra virtual worlds.
To finally summarise: My learning experience on this course has been a steep learning curve. I have struggled with some virtual technologies and time management commitments but have gained an immense satisfaction out of facilitating a topic online and sharing ideas in the discussion board. I liked the concept about using a blog and have adopted this in my Information Systems class for their final examination. It would have been better to have been in a group of 3-4 for the blog as the sucess is dependant on participation. My partner did not participate after week 4.

References
Swan K. Learning and Teaching with Technology. Chapter 10 Developing a Social Presence. (2003) Kogan Page USA.

- Maryanne

Friday, November 3

Hilary and Sue's Assessed Facilitation






Activity 13.1 Practical Issues of Conducting Online Assessment


In light of the ever increasing use of computers within education, the move to online assessment can be seen as a natural progression. The topics to be discussed this week look at the effectiveness of this mode of assessment compared to traditional methods and any management issues to be considered when delivering online and flexible assessments.
Online assessment strategies should be considered at the course design stage. Key considerations could be:-
How effective are online assessment tools in measuring learning or ability?
Should assessment be purely online or would a mix or traditional and online methods be fairer?
How often should assessment take place?
Can online assessment adequately measure competency?
How much time is required for designing and developing online testing methods?
What steps can be taken to prevent cheating or plagiarism?
This week we will investigate the suitability of various online assessment tools and their effectiveness in measuring learning outcomes.
Below are two links to websites which provide some useful guidelines to online assessment at design stage:-
http://www.learningdesigns.uow.edu.au/exemplars/index.html
This site provides exemplars of online course design incorporating assessment techniques.
http://www.tafe.swin.edu.au/indsci/assess/tools.htm
Contains references and scenarios for the selection of online assessment tools.
Hilary

Number of Messages: 69[ 2 ] -
I found this subject to be very dry and I was not in the mood for a lot of heaving reading this week. It was a bit over the top in the amount Hilary asked us to do. However I did go in and look at the assessment tools and I must add this would be a very exciting course to be on. If this was a course I would learn a great deal about how to set up on line assessments. Cheating and ownership was a hot topic as I am also in the basket of not believing on line assessment is the correct way to assess. (Examination style paper) If it was task orientated then it may work
- Maryanne


Activity 13.2 - Face shapes to consider


Many of us use our hair to express our personality, but before you race to the hairdressers for that new 'do' you've seen in the magazines it is handy to understand your face shape. Will that new style enhance your facial features and look good on you?
Once you have read the material for Activity 1.1 in Course Topics, join the group in this forum to discuss the seven face shapes and the styling principles used to balance facial features.
Remember, you need to:
Post your face shape (or chosen face shape) before Tuesday
State what you think your face shape is - include 2 reasons WHY you think you have this shape
Briefly explain what you will be looking for in a style to BALANCE your face shape
Comment on the face shapes posted by at least 2 other participants - can you add to their descriptions?
Sue
Number of Messages: 62[ 1 ]

-Here Sue has us looking at our reflections very closely. I decided I have a round/pear shaped face. I needed height on top and less at the sides. Very good for using this as an assessment type as we all needed to post our photos in and comment to them.

Activity 13.3 - Hair styles that complement face shapes


Once you have read the material for Activity 1.2 in Course Topics, join the group in this forum to discuss hair styles that can be used to balance facial features.
For this activity you need to:
Go to the Virtual Hair Stylist at http://www.ukhairdressers.com/hair_move/virtual_hairstyle.asp
Upload your chosen face shape to the Virtual Salon (instructions for this are included in the material under Course Topics as well as on the salon site
Post your chosen hair style (or hair styles!) to this forum using the picture you have saved at your photobucket.com account OR by attaching an MS Word document containing your hair style.
Under your style:
State WHY you think the style balances your face shape - give 2 reasons
Briefly explain the styles you tried that did NOT balance your face shape - did the styles have anything in common? (Feel free to include any pictures of these styles if you are happy for the group to see them!)
Comment on the styles posted by at least 2 other participants - do you think the style balances their face? Include your reasoning.
Sue
(P.S. Which style do you think suits John best?)
This was hillarious. I had a lot of fun learning hair styles that compliment the face shape with the on-line stylist. This was a very good way of demonstrating a practical method of assessing a practical subject. It brings me to my point I made about Hilary's topic. Practical assessments are the way to assess for authorship and to prevent cheating a photo could be used as id. - Maryanne

Friday, October 27

Gordons Facilitation

Gordons week has been an eye opener for me. I happened to enjoy his topic and have thought about what makes a good maths teacher.

Gordon Wrote
"Poor maths teachers = Poor maths students
When you were at school, did you like maths or despise the subject?
High school maths is straightforward and most people should be able to understand it. That is why most people do it. However, it is a subject that tends to polarise students - they either love it or hate it.
Here are some statements that I have found to be universally true:
Those that enjoy maths are the ones that can do it.
Those that hate maths are the ones that struggle to understand the subject.
Everyone has been able to cope with maths at some level.
When the understanding stops it is usually because of a poor teacher.
There may be some areas of maths that you struggled with at school, and still have problems with today. You may have a belief that it is just too difficult and you are simply not able to cope with it.
Click on the link to find a short reading: http://www.mathematicalbrain.com/sept03/tel01.html
This week there is an opportunity to share some of these experiences with the group, to try to develop an understanding of maths in a problem area and to reflect on why you found it so difficult at school. Can it be attributed to a poor teacher?
The first activity is a short maths quiz. Go into the forum to find the link.
Thanks,
Gordon

I found this weeks dialogue was quite thought provoking as far as analysing my own feelings towards Maths. I must confess, I never liked maths in high school but got to love it when I had been in the workforce for two decades. I went back to tech in the 80's and completed level 3. I cannot remember the maths teacher I had in the 60's but remember the experience as being very unpleasant. I had the opportunity to teach maths last week for a teacher who was away. I thoroughly enjoyed the week. I found the subject (% and fractions) to be stimulating. The students used their calculators whereas I showed them methods to calculate without the fancy buttons.
- Maryanne

Tims Facilitation

Tim had a discussion about synchronous or asynchronous being, which is the better medium to have .

Activity 11.1 - Survival! Decision-making in Synchronous and Asynchronous Media

How easily can you make yourself understood?
In a virtual, synchronous environment, where you have the ability to use postures, expressions and gestures, how easy is it to get your message across without misinterpretation?
In an asynchronous environment can you express yourself fully, as if your own life depended on the success of your communication?
This week you will participate in two scenarios:
an asynchronous simulation in this forum
a synchronous simulation in http://www.moove.com/
In order to survive the horrifying ordeals that await, you will need to critically evaluate a problem, argue your case, negotiate, and finally reach a consensus decision.
The very survival of you and your classmates depends upon it!
As you progress through the simulations, think about the effectiveness of both synchronous and asynchronous media in terms of facilitating group decision-making.
Towards the end of the week, you will discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both media in terms of group decision-making.
To find instructions for the asynchronous simulation, go to the Pacific thread in this forum.
To find instructions for the synchronous simulation, go to the Canada thread in this forum.
...will you make it to week 12.......?
- Tim
Here are the final conclusions (Gordon posted)
  1. Water - basic survival need
  2. Army Rations - food, will be compact and nutritious
  3. Chocolate bars - as above, just not quite as good
  4. Plastic Sheeting - for shelter and to collect any rainwater for drinking
  5. Shaving mirror - for signalling
  6. Rope - for anyone or anything that is in the water (tether), also could be used for lashing during heavy weather
  7. Fishing kit - food supply
  8. Radio - not useful in isolated area, but may be the first indicator that we were drifting in towards land/civilisation if it was scanned intermittently
  9. Cushion - good for man overboard
    Rum - antiseptic, bottle acts as a container for water collected (but should not be consumed - dehydrates)
  10. Shark Repellent - if anyone is in the water, maybe not so important now we are all fitting in the boat
  11. Mosquito netting - possible fish trap, could keep any fish caught alive (fresh) until needed for food
  12. Oil/Petrol - possible signal when alight but a dangerous practice on or around a rubber raft
  13. Sextant - useless. No sailors aboard, no on will know how to use it. Don't you need charts also? Marginally more useful than the map as it contains lenses (firestarters, signallers)
    Maps - useless, without bearings and propulsion
    Gordon

My response was:

I reckon that we swap 11 for 12 as mosquito netting has more use to us. Can be used as bandages, slings, fresh water fish safe, nets, heat/shade cloth. and 13 for 12 as oil/petrol has more use than shark repellent. We are all in the raft so shark repellent goes last.

13. Shark Repellent - if anyone is in the water, maybe not so important now we are all fitting in the boat
11. Mosquito netting - possible fish trap, could keep any fish caught alive (fresh) until needed for food
12. Oil/Petrol - possible signal when alight but a dangerous practice on or around a rubber raft
Maryanne

This was a very good way of comparing and contrasting synchronous vs asynchronous transmission.

There was a meeting arranged on moove.com. I am unable to download that big a file at home and the security at work prohibts moove. However, I have been into socialise a very similar program where you have avators and chat online with other people.

Here is my response:

Hello All
Although I could not take part in the synchronous moove exercise last night, I have been to other sites where we talk and move around the room.
My summary is:
When in asynchronous mode the subject is task orientate and driven by the user. The user tends to look at it from a single perspective. (Results show that we did the same on the life raft). Although there was a lot of good natured banter Gordon posted the final list. I really don't remember voting although everyone's ideas who contributed to the exercise was carefully considered. It may have worked better if we were put into teams or groups and therefore been obliged to take our findings to you for final vote. Or perhaps we could have used the V classroom and chat on line as this does draw us in to the conversation and it is really dynamic.
When in synchronous mode, our gross motor skills are challenged to keep up with the text. There is a sequence time delay from the text and movement (both cannot come down the same time as we are not full duplex) This is a bit like the old toll calls with a second delay. It takes up too much time to really have a good natter and move at the same time. Perhaps one better would have been web cam or a video conference as we can see our members and enjoy the ambiance as well.
Cheers
-Maryanne

Wed - Frid Facilitation


Wednesdays Comments I popped in half a dozen times and summarised every ones choices (some very obscure and bizare) I really don't think the group would use the choices. Very little justifying. Tim is trying to be obtuse. Sue and Deb are helpful and are playing the 'game' Time is playing the game also by trying to stir the non responders into action.

Wednesday went relatively smoothly with a few members responding. Thursday went slowly.


Thursday

To drum up interest, I have gone into some of the web sites and have copied and pasted some of the funny ones. I hope this can bring those members in our group out of the woodwork.


Friday
I decided to post the final voted emoticons on Friday. After summarising the votes, I posted the results back onto the discussion board. Alltogether I was overall pleased with the week. It seemed to stir interest and bring out some interesting comments from Gordon and Tim.
-Maryanne

Here is the complete list o all the postings from our group:


-->
COURSES > FACILITATING ELEARNING COMMUNITIES > COMMUNICATIONS > DISCUSSION BOARD > ACTIVITY 11.2 WHAT MAKES GOOD EMOTICONS?

Mondays Task - Search for Suitable...
Communities, Facilitator
Sun Oct 15 2006 21:47
A Starter for 10
Robinson, Gordon
Mon Oct 16 2006 17:19
Re: A Starter for 10

Top Three Emoticons
Hugill, Susan
Mon Oct 16 2006 21:07
Re: Top Three Emoticons
Wright, Maryanne
Mon Oct 16 2006 22:58
Wright, Maryanne
Mon Oct 16 2006 22:57

Re: A Starter for 10
Robinson, Gordon
Wed Oct 18 2006 09:50
Re: A Starter for 10
Mosley, Deb
Tue Oct 17 2006 15:57

Shakespeare and Smileys
Campbell, Tim
Tue Oct 17 2006 09:26
Re: Shakespeare and Smileys
Mockridge, Hilary
Tue Oct 17 2006 15:00
Re: Shakespeare and Smileys
Hugill, Susan
Tue Oct 17 2006 18:11

Tim's list
Campbell, Tim
Tue Oct 17 2006 09:55
Re: Tim's list
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 17 2006 21:57
Re: Tim's list
Campbell, Tim
Wed Oct 18 2006 07:32

Learning Convention
Campbell, Tim
Tue Oct 17 2006 09:37
Re: Learning Convention
Elias, Sandra
Wed Oct 18 2006 04:16
Re: Learning Convention
Campbell, Tim
Wed Oct 18 2006 07:23
Re: Learning Convent...
Hugill, Susan
Wed Oct 18 2006 22:26
Re: Learning Convention
Mosley, Deb
Wed Oct 18 2006 15:17

Re: Monday's Task - Search for S...
Hogan, Tania
Thu Oct 19 2006 17:26
Re: Monday's Task - Search fo...
Wright, Maryanne
Fri Oct 20 2006 09:52
Tuesday's Plan
Communities, Facilitator
Mon Oct 16 2006 23:46
Re: Tuesday's Plan
Campbell, Tim
Tue Oct 17 2006 09:39
Re: Tuesday's Plan
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 17 2006 21:00
Sandra's top 4
Elias, Sandra
Wed Oct 18 2006 04:29
Re: Sandra's top 4
Wright, Maryanne
Wed Oct 18 2006 13:32
Re: Sandra's top 4
Campbell, Tim
Wed Oct 18 2006 16:12
Re: Sandra's top 4
Hugill, Susan
Wed Oct 18 2006 23:05
Re: Sandra's top 4
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 11:48
Re: Sandra's top 4
Elias, Sandra
Thu Oct 19 2006 04:32
Re: Sandra's top 4
Campbell, Tim
Thu Oct 19 2006 08:35
Re: Sandra's top 4
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 11:54
Re: Sandra's top 4
Mockridge, Hilary
Thu Oct 19 2006 13:55
Re: Sandra's t...
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 15:23
Re: Sandra's t...
Mosley, Deb
Thu Oct 19 2006 16:33
Re: Sandra's top 4
Campbell, Tim
Thu Oct 19 2006 13:58
Re: Sandra's t...
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 15:26
Re: Sandra'...
Robinson, Gordon
Fri Oct 20 2006 08:56
Re: Sandra...
Campbell, Tim
Fri Oct 20 2006 09:39
Re: Sandra's top 4
Mosley, Deb
Wed Oct 18 2006 15:31
Re: Sandra's top 4
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 11:56
Why is that rude .....
Mosley, Deb
Tue Oct 17 2006 15:09
Re: Why is that rude .....
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 17 2006 21:08
Re: Why is that rude .....
Hugill, Susan
Wed Oct 18 2006 23:33
Re: Why is that rude .....
Campbell, Tim
Thu Oct 19 2006 08:44
Re: Why is that rude .....
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 11:58
Hilary's smiley choices
Mockridge, Hilary
Tue Oct 17 2006 15:21
Re: Hilary's smiley choices
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 17 2006 21:54
Re: Hilary's smiley choices
Mockridge, Hilary
Wed Oct 18 2006 13:12
Debs top ten list ...
Mosley, Deb
Tue Oct 17 2006 15:51
Re: Debs top ten list ...
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 17 2006 22:01
Re: Debs top ten list ...
Mosley, Deb
Wed Oct 18 2006 15:35
Re: Debs top ten list ...
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 12:00
Sue's Top 10
Hugill, Susan
Tue Oct 17 2006 18:41
Re: Sue's Top 10
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 17 2006 22:10
Re: Sue's Top 10
Mosley, Deb
Wed Oct 18 2006 15:41
Re: Interpretation ...
Mosley, Deb
Wed Oct 18 2006 15:57
Wednesday's Task - Decisions
Communities, Facilitator
Tue Oct 17 2006 22:45
List So Far
Wright, Maryanne
Wed Oct 18 2006 14:32
Re: List So Far
Robinson, Gordon
Thu Oct 19 2006 08:36
Emotional Punctuaticons...?
Campbell, Tim
Thu Oct 19 2006 08:53
Re: List So Far
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 12:02
Revised Top Ten
Campbell, Tim
Thu Oct 19 2006 09:10
Re: Revised Top Ten
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 12:04
Re: List So Far
Mosley, Deb
Thu Oct 19 2006 16:24
Another Point
Robinson, Gordon
Fri Oct 20 2006 09:08
Re: Another Point
Wright, Maryanne
Fri Oct 20 2006 09:55
Negative vs Positive Outlook
Campbell, Tim
Fri Oct 20 2006 09:55
Re: Negative vs Positiv...
Wright, Maryanne
Fri Oct 20 2006 10:00
Re: Negative vs Positiv...
Robinson, Gordon
Fri Oct 20 2006 18:02
Re: Negative vs Posi...
Campbell, Tim
Fri Oct 20 2006 21:33
Re: Negative vs P...
Robinson, Gordon
Sat Oct 21 2006 08:14
Re: Negative v...
Campbell, Tim
Mon Oct 23 2006 08:22
Re: Negativ...
Wright, Maryanne
Tue Oct 24 2006 00:14
Re: Another Point
Mosley, Deb
Fri Oct 20 2006 10:59
Thursday's Activity
Communities, Facilitator
Thu Oct 19 2006 10:35
Take a Look!
Wright, Maryanne
Thu Oct 19 2006 14:19
My Final Choices
Robinson, Gordon
Fri Oct 20 2006 09:17
Re: My Final Choices
Campbell, Tim
Fri Oct 20 2006 10:17
Re: My Final Choices
Mosley, Deb
Fri Oct 20 2006 11:17
Re: Take a Look!
Mosley, Deb
Fri Oct 20 2006 11:13
Friday's Votes
Communities, Facilitator
Fri Oct 20 2006 13:49
Apologies
Weavers, Jennifer
Sun Oct 22 2006 15:06
Sort by Default Author Date Subject
= Maryanne

Tuesday, October 17

Tuesdays Reflection


I popped in Tuesday about 8 times to check who was on and what was being said. A better day as far as responses are concerned. Some resistance to use emoticons from Tim and Gordon as (and I do secretly agree with them) they do point out that Shakespeare did not need them. I ponder this as Shakespeare was not on line. Maybe to add punch to a statement I need to add an emotion. (sitting on my seat with a smile on my face) or :-) quicker to type for me. I use smileys as they give instant feedback to the receiver as to how I am.


Well I have answered all the replies and have noticed that I have about 40% responses so far. I don't think that is too crash hot, but the other members may be busy planning their own week.
Someow emoticons have morphed into typographical symbols. Arethey the same and does it matter I ask myself.
Tim gave such a funny reply it had me rolling on the floor - smileys in Shakespeare. It doesn't bear thinking about.

- Maryanne

My first day - Maryanne 16/10



Number of Messages: 82[ 6 ]
ACTIVITY 11.2 What makes good emoticons?

Hi, welcome to my planned discussion topic. In week four's discussions, we looked at typographical symbols and emoticons. This stirred me to delve further into emotional responses. A lot of responses we give can be misconstrued, unless the message and response is clearly written. I personally do not like ? or !!! I find these rude. I find a little smiley face very clear in its intention.


This week we are researching the usefulness of emoticons. Some threads to ponder and answer are:
Are they useful at all?
How useful are they for our group?
What emoticon/(s) adequately show the reader feelings that need to be communicated?
As a group, can we come up with a set of 10 standard emoticons that we would use?
According to Karen Swan, in her article about developing social presence in online course discussions, she discusses the importance of using affective indicators to communicate. She recommends that we respond with clarity and immediacy, to develop a social presence. She discusses the importance of using interactive and affective indicators.
(For those of you who would like to read the book I got this from: Learning and Teaching with Technology - Principles and practices. Edited by Som Naidu. Kogan Page, U.S.A. (Chapter 10).
- Maryanne
Eeek! It is Monday and Tim and I are facilitating this week. I am nervous that no one will join up and have a go. I have popped in a couple of times to peek and so far there is no one. Ahh Gordon has obliged and also Deb. Gordon has managed to find some pretty obscure symbols and Deb has stuck to safe. It is now midnight and I am pretty tired. I have just gone into the facilitator account and posted Tuesdays activity on.
So far there is little movement.

-Maryanne

Friday, October 13

Maryannes Plan - Final

Hello Kerry et al
Here is my plan: Please comment on it and tell me what you may think.

Facilitation Plan

Identification and timing

Facilitator’s Name: Maryanne Wright
Class Identifier: Facilitating e-learning communities
Start Time: 9:00 am
Start Date: Monday 16th October, 2006
Finish Time: 6:00pm
Finish Date: Sunday 22nd October, 2006

Reason for the meeting
What makes good emoticons?
Establish ten emoticons that will be used in our group to show the reader our emotions.

Medium used
For this activity I will be using asynchronous discussion areas, emit black board.
Some of the benefits of using this are:

  1. Group members can discuss at different times of the day and night.
  2. It is not dependant on everyone being on line at once.
  3. A thread can be added to and re added to.
  4. Topics can be re-visited.
  5. Fostering a community spirit.
  6. Supporting a collaborative environment.
  7. Comments are able to be modified
  8. Reflection is an important part of constructive discussion and by having discussion forums available all week, the reflection process is maintained.
  9. Time to research the exercise.
  10. I will be able to answer questions in my available times.

Description of the group

The group I will be facilitating will be ‘Limbs Jones’ group. ‘Limbs Jones’ comprises fifteen members but not all are active.
The group formed on 24th July 2006 and the gender is predominately female. The group’s ages range from mid twenties to mid fifties. The members of the group are in various locations around New Zealand and abroad. This can cause a slight delay in response as there is a significant time difference.

All members are working towards developing online courses for their respective employment. Most members of the group are tutors/educators, or in some way connected to education or training.

The learning styles are mixed but there is a lean towards the visual learner.
Some members have previously met on other on-line courses and face to face. I don’t think these members have any advantage, as the community is a different body from the last. It has its own chemistry and uniqueness due the cohort of members that are participating.

The group are approximately two-thirds way through their course - Facilitating E-Learning Communities and have formed a dynamic community.
They have formed, exchanged information in a collaborative community and are in development stage.

The topic I have chosen to facilitate is:
What makes good emoticons/How useful are they/ and do they assist in personalising on-line communication?
How many emoticons would the group need to effectively show a non ambiguous emotion?

Aim:
- To discuss the usefulness of emoticons.
- To research emoticons and to come up with a set of standard emoticons that the group would use.

Objectives:
By the end of the lesson learners should be able to:
Identify and justify emoticons’ usefulness.
Choose ten emoticons that would be suitable for the group to use.

Planned facilitation of the meeting
Sparks / Initial ideas / Discussion starters: (Post on Monday)
Hi, welcome to my planned discussion topic. In week four discussion, we delved into typographical symbols and emoticons. This stirred me to delve further into emotional responses. A lot of responses we give can be misconstrued unless the message and response is clearly written. I personally do not like ? or !!!, I find these rude. I find a little smiley face very clear in its intention. This week we are researching the usefulness of emoticons. Some threads to ponder and answer are:

  1. Are they useful at all?
  2. How useful are they for our group?
  3. What emoticon/(s) adequately show the reader feelings that need to be communicated?
    As a group, can we come up with a set of 10 standard emoticons that we would use?

According to Karen Swan, in her article about developing social presence in online course discussions, she discusses the importance of using affective indicators to communicate. She recommends that we respond with clarity and immediacy to develop a social presence. She discusses the importance of using interactive and affective indicators.
(For those of you who would like to read the book I got this from: Learning and Teaching with Technology – Principles and practices. Edited by Som Naidu. Kogan Page U.S.A. Chapter 10)

First facilitator message: (Post for Monday)
- In this activity, I would like you to search some sites that display emoticons. To make this standard, in case of differing computer capabilities, I would like you to look at emoticons that are non moving and non morphing.
Once you have looked at these sites, I would like you to pick out what you think are the top 20 emoticons you would use. Then put these you’re your photo-bucket. This may take a couple of days to gather information. I have posted a few links for you to try. If you know of more, please share them on the discussion board.


http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/sefSmiley.htm History of smiley
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/apr2001/nf20010423_785.htm (business week on line link
http://www.drbbs.com/jsw/jargon/jargon_20.html new hackers dictionary
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/exlibris/1992/10/msg00041.html list of typed smileys
http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh/smiley.html List of smileys
http://hometown.aol.com/bearpage/smileys.htm Basic, emotional, widely used and unusual smileys.
http://www.windweaver.com/emoticon.htm Recommended emoticons and smileys for email communication
http://www.smileycentral.com/ More smileys
http://www.websmileys.com/ More smileys
http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/ascii/smileys.html unnoficial dict

Second facilitator message including facilitation techniques to be used: (Post for Tuesday)
- Hello All. This activity is to bring back to the entire group your picks.
This must be in a fixed format, using photo-bucket software.

You need to justify why these are your selections. This will be posted in the discussion board. We are going to look at every ones choices and reasons why.

Third facilitator message including facilitation techniques to be used: (Post for Wednesday)
Hello All. As a group we need to decide on the most suitable emoticons to use.

I am going to post all the emoticons you have chosen into a file and post it on this discussion board so we can see who has chosen what. It will be interesting to see what you think the top ones are.


Fourth facilitator message: (Post for Thursday)
Hello All. Just to remind every one that we will vote via the discussion board at 12 noon on Friday. I will display the lists and would like you to post your vote for the top 10 emoticons we will use. Rank the emoticons from one to ten, one being the first and ten being the last. Justify your choices.

Summarising message main points to be covered :
Finally how useful do you think emoticons really are?
Here are your results. (I would summarise by posting using photo-bucket the top ten emoticons the group had voted on and the reasons why each emoticon was chosen. This would be ranked 1 -10)

Closing message:
I would thank every one for participating. I hope you have had some fun along the way and finally here are your choices. (display)
Last question “How useful are they?”

How often will you facilitate?
I plan to host five major postings and to look in three times per day.

Monday, September 25

Psychological Needs On-Line- Emoticons

- As I am reading this book, I thought I would summarize my readings:
Designing and Teaching an On-Line Course. (1999). Heidi Schweizer, USA: Allyn and Bacon.
The four psychological needs are belonging, freedom,power and fun. If these are met, then the learning is set free.

Belonging Tips for on-line activities
  1. Hold an on-site meeting (to reaffirm ties and to grow relationships)
  2. Introduce yourself on line (to create a 'human' connection)
  3. personalize your distance classroom (profiles etc) (Use emoticons)
  4. Use cooperative learning (group work and discussions)
  5. Be invitational (be accessible and respond quickly to queries)
  6. Use email (for extra support and encouragement)
  7. Be approachable and personal (be open and willing to listen) (use emotion in your responses (happy sad wink symbols are signs that you are onto it)

Freedom Tips for on-line activities

  1. Give choices of when and how assignments are completed
  2. Different pace for students
  3. Choice of various methods of research (on or off line)

Power Tips for on-line activities

  1. Self directed (gives personal power for choice)
  2. Have a variety of interactive learning experiences that allow students to share personal experiences related to the topic. (contributions - value)
  3. Empowers the reticent student in an on-line situation (not afraid to write their thoughts down) Evens out the playing field and allows the time for response.

Fun Tips for on-line activities

  1. Provide opportunities for tutorials and second chances. Feeling of success is a fun thing.
  2. Create interactive discussions and group work. Sharing ideas is fun
  3. Share creative ideas (sharing creative juices is fun)
  4. Share a posting of a computer joke of the week
  5. Use the announcement board to announce events
  6. Create competition - Award prizes

I hear this as to 'humanise' the approach. John posted in weeks one and two of our course that body language is Bovee and Thill (2000) point out that only about 35% of conversing is tone, 58% is body language and 7% of the meaning contained in a message is carried by the actual words used. Most of the meaning is carried in the tone and the body language. ....
creating a social tone that is conducive to learning and further socialisation.

I am therefore looking at emoticons as a way of replacing the f2f body language and partially tone of conversations. Which ones are friendly non offensive and can be used to express anxiety, happiness, sadness.

-Maryanne

Thursday, September 21

Maryannes Draft Plan

I have been thinking what to do thought about MIT net but was not suitable for this exercise
Here is the second
Maryanne’s Facilitation Plan
(Draft v1)


Identification and timing
Facilitator’s Name: Maryanne Wright
Class Identifier: Facilitating e-learning communities
Start Time: 9:00 am
Start Date: Monday 9th October, 2006
Finish Time: 6:00pm
Finish Date: Sunday 15th October, 2006

Reason for the meeting
What makes good emoticons?
Establish twenty emoticons that will be used in our group.

Medium used
For this activity I will be using asynchronous discussion areas an emit black board.
Some of the benefits of using this are:
Group members can discuss at different times of the day and night.
It is not dependant on everyone being on line at once.
A thread can be added to and re added to.
Topics can be re-visited
This gives a collaborative approach and fosters a community spirit.
Comments are able to be modified
Reflection is an important part of constructive discussion and by having discussion forums available all week, the reflection process is maintained.
Time to research the exercise.
I will be able to answer questions in my available times.

Description of the group

The group I will be facilitating will be ‘Limbs Jones’ group. ‘Limbs Jones’ comprises of fifteen members but not all are active.
The group started in 24th July 2006 and the gender is mostly female. There is a wide range of ages. The members of the group are in various locations around New Zealand and abroad. This can cause a slight delay in response as there is a 15 hour time difference between members.

All members are working towards developing online courses for their respective employment. Most members of the group are tutors or, in some way connected to education.

The learning styles are mixed but there is a lean towards the visual learner.
Some members have previously met on other on-line courses and face to face.

The group are approximately half way through their course - Facilitating E-Learning Communities and have formed a dynamic community.
So, they have formed, exchanged information in a collaborative community and could be between knowledge construction and development stage. I am certain that by the time I am facilitating this discussion the group would have moved to development stage.


The topic I have chosen to facilitate is:
What makes good emoticons/How useful are they?
How many emoticons would the group need?

Aim:
- To discuss the usefulness of emoticons.
- To research emoticons and to come up with a set of standard emoticons that the group would use.

Objectives:
By the end of the lesson learners should be able to:
Identify and justify emoticons usefulness
Choose ten emoticons that would be suitable to use for the group

Planned facilitation of the meeting
Sparks / Initial ideas / Discussion starters:
Hi, welcome to my planned discussion topic. This week we are researching into the usefulness of emoticons. How useful are they for our group? As a group, can we come up with a set of standard emoticons that we would use?

First facilitator message:
- The first activity we will look at is at popular sites.
Once you have looked at these sites, I would like you to pick out what you think are the top 10 emoticons you would use. This may take a couple of days to gather information.

Second facilitator message including facilitation techniques to be used:
- The second activity is to bring back to the group your picks.
This must be in a fixed format, using photobucket software.
You need to justify why these are your selections. This will be posted in the discussion board.

Third facilitator message including facilitation techniques to be used:
As a group we need to decide on the most suitable emoticons to use.
(I would then post all the emoticons each member has chosen into a file and post it on the discussion board)
Please post your vote for the top 10 emoticons we will use. Justify your choices.
(I would post a message saying that we would all vote on line at 12 noon on Friday)
I would ask the question how useful does the group find emoticons.

Summarising message main points to be covered :
I would summarise by posting using photobucket the top ten emoticons the group had voted on and the reasons why each emoticon was chosen. This would be ranked.

Closing message:
I would thank every one for participating and show the top ten emoticons. I would reiterate the groups answer to; “How useful are they?”

How often will you facilitate?
I plan to host five major postings and to look in three times per day.
Maryanne

Tuesday, September 19

My Draft- Scaffold on line

My plan is to teach my trainees online in a blended form.

I have already given them notice previously about what they will be encountering and it starts tonight.
Tonight I will induct them into the use of eMIT and then give them the opportunity to post some thoughts on two discussion boards I have set up.

This is the last nightclass for the term so hopefully over the two week break they will take the time to get on line and post comments which I will lurk and resopnd to.

Once they return next term, learning material and assessments will be made available for them to work through and complete.

It's a start with more to come.

Cheers
Kerry

Friday, September 8

MOOS. MUDS Avatars and Virtual Rooms / Chat

This week has been a bit frantic for me. It was my turn to facilitate and the task was 7.2 The Palace. The Palace is a virtual 3-D Chat room where you come as a person (made up) and chat to others. This proved to be too much for our IT Department who spat the dummy about - security, virus infestation, streaming, comes link. They would not let this be down loaded.
I feel that the nearsightedly of some people are positively hindering progression and exploration. After all MIT is meant to be a pioneer of technology and to bring our students into the future. Our students are mostly from the gen X and Y (more Y) and are at home with virtual chats, games on line and on line research. Our technology is not. After one evening trying to download the palace at home, I and others gave up. System requirements
I went into another site www.socialise.co.nz this was a lot easier on my old computer at home. (Still couldn't use this at MIT) This was a lot of fun. I created an avatar Chilli - with black hair and blue streaks, green skin and a red dress. Went into the cafe and became acquainted with the room. It took some dexterity to move in a single motion not jerky steps. My gross motor skills are rusty. This has proved to be a fun exercise to learn from


Reflections -


  • Facilitating is not as easy as it looks. Trying to keep everyone interested enough to participate. If a step fails, have a second or even third plan as a Back up.
  • When building courses on line, be aware that all technology is not the same.
  • I could see the positive uses of having virtual chat rooms - for ESOL students to practice their English in short sentences, to revise new words, to use the power of vision, audio, and writing skills to reinforce learning.
  • Need to have a variety of ways to keep the passion of teaching alive.
  • Need to have variety to retain students interest.
  • Could be used as a set up for simulated situations (Sandra Elias mentioned that it could be used as a virtual birthing room - email 6th September 2006)
  • I could envisage the use as simulated case studies to actively participate in : scenario 1, 2, 3 etc.

Creating Avatars are fun and it seems the rest of the group have wholeheartedly joined in this. Tim and I took over this session as Shayna has baulked at the prospect. A little bit of fantasy did me good. It seems that we all like to wear masks sometimes and hide behind another identity.

Sandra Elias facilitated MOOS and MUDS

I went into three sites and found two to be really fascinating.. I got taken around a backstade theatre, instructed in scenes from Midsummers Night Dream (nicely written). The characters were described in detail, so was the setting the scene before the acts. Afterwards I went on a MOO visit around the streets of London till I got to the theatre. The second MOO I found entertaining was Star Trek. I was given a complete run down on the language and culture of each major planet - Klinon etc and how far away each planet was from the Federation. The currency, customs etc were described all in colour.

Reflections

Positives - I liked the way the plot was written. As far a visual learners go (I am one) I noticed clear text which helped me read the plots. There was pleanty of consideration of not cramming in too much on the screen - white space. If I was teaching English Level 2, I would certainly use this site as a group exercise. Great way for groups to learn their lines and to engage in practicing their literacy skills.
Nice way to reinforce theory subjects by making it into a game.
Visually appealing to watch starship enterprise whoosh in warp factor nine with klingons on the starboard bough.
Good if you had History or Geography as subjects to animate. (Imagine the impact of setting off a missile.
Negatives - One of the sites I went too was a Star Trek MOO. I found the directions unclear and couldn't find the link to search for inhabited planets. Unless there are clear directions one could become very lost super quick. This would add to the level of frustration a student may feel if faced with an online task not clearly mapped. What I found confusing though was the black screen and white writing. Knowing what commands to type to get from a - b was limiting. When we design courses with MOOs there should be clear instructions for easier navigation.

Overall the summary goes like this:

Positives -

  • Visually reinforces literacy, and language (written and spoken)
  • Fun way to learn
  • Could be used as instructor rooms (birthing, case studies)
  • Encourages shy members of the group to actively participate
  • Could be used to reinforce theory
  • Could be used in long distance education where a paratical element is required (lab work)


Negatives-

  • Beware of different time zones when asking group members to participate.
  • Compatibility with software and hardware and file sizes
  • Firewalls and Security protocols are restrictive in some institutions
  • May not be culturally acceptable to all students.
  • Full of virus's

Maryanne 7/9

Tuesday, August 29

List Servers

Tuesday 29th Aug (In need of coffee) Well Kerry, I have lurked in www.topica.com for a week now in the area of 'punk rock' I had a number of tasks to observe:

  • To identify the roles people are taking - There seems to be a number of gurus who post info about when the next band will be playing or the latest record. Not many people visit this site. (28, 27, 18, 11, 25 in a week) Maybe our choice is not very popular Kerry! There seems to be a lot of old activity (past times)
  • Stats - A range of a few lines of cryptic comments to a full blown site of a purple punk comic strip. I liked this one as it had some humor added to it. A site where one person was taking the lead as the information centre. Not much movement in and out of the site. To sum up I felt that this was a list of a group of people who posted info about punk - totally disconnected and not cohesive The rationale for this was there was little or no interaction between the topics and postings. It was run more like a bulletin board and topics or interests were not discussed.

What do you feel Kerry?

- Maryanne

Wednesday, August 23

Exotica topics

For today's topics Kerry and I decided to search on Punk Rock and this is what I quietly observed while lurking around. All items in red are the topics , the number of hits and topics. I did not find too many recent postings though. It is like blogs within a blog. Not interactive but very much like having a pen pal or joining a club (in the old fashioned days when you wanted to meet nice people you would go out and join up to specific clubs (stamp collectors -- eek or punk memorabilia
This was gleaned from www.topica.com


Category:
Top Entertainment Music Genres Punk
List Name
Buzzcocks/Secret Public (buzzcocks)
Purpose:
Mailing list for fans of the punk band Buzzcocks, the greatest ever.
Website URL:
http://www.buzzcocks.com/
List Type:
Unmoderated discussion
Subscription:
Does not require owner approval
Archive:
Readable by subscribers only
Created:
Dec 15, 1999 - too long ago
Owner:
John P. Lennon
To Join:
Subscribe here, or send an email to buzzcocks-subscribe@topica.com
To Post:
Send mail to 'buzzcocks@topica.com'
Stats:
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David Lewis
01/17/04
http://lists.topica.com/lists/oldpunkshome/read/message.html?mid=909387374&sort=d&start=150
simon young
01/18/04
http://lists.topica.com/lists/oldpunkshome/read/message.html?mid=909388092&sort=d&start=150
Nick Hoggard
01/18/04
http://lists.topica.com/lists/oldpunkshome/read/message.html?mid=909427375&sort=d&start=150
simon young
01/25/04
Redskins Tribute Record
Bazza
03/08/04
Redskins - New Web Address
Bazza
03/31/04
Punk & Oi Competition
Bazza
05/03/04
Keep On Keepin' On
Bazza
05/30/04
Redskins Tribute
Bazza
06/18/04
Music Forte - Free for Musicians and ...
CaptMatrix
08/01/04
Re: Music Forte - Free for Musicians ...
braian-@argentina.com
08/01/04
Redskins Tribute EP
Bazza
08/08/04
FULL GAMES, MOVIES, MP3s, AND MOBILE ...
gary davis
08/13/04
2,500,000 ...F R E E....H I T S - WOW !!
CaptDouble
11/20/04
Make $400.00 Daily, surfing 40 sites
CaptGojiJuice
01/26/05 -----------------------love this name (like beetlejuice)
CALLING ALL CANADIANS - Please Open
CaptGojiJuice
02/03/05
dskins Tribute Album
Bazza
03/15/05
MUSIC FORTE - FREE - FREE - Join the ...
Tom goji Broadbent
05/11/05
International Galleries - Earn Hundre...
Tom Broadbent
05/29/05
Redskins Tribute Album
Bazza
08/23/05
Fr*ee Safelist Submitter - 2000 lists...
Tom Broadbent -Goji
12/18/05
http://lists.topica.com/lists/oldpunkshome/read/message.html?mid=912752717&sort=d&start=150
jdha-@dcccd.edu
12/19/05
MESSAGE NOT DELIVERED: Digest for old...
KipBartl-@pjmcnamara.com
12/19/05
Ska Night In London
Bazza
05/18/06
ttp://lists.topica.com/lists/oldpunkshome/read/message.html?mid=913070260&sort=d&start=150
jdha-@dcccd.edu
05/19/06

- but not all sites allowed me to just watch the button was missing.
Maryanne